He leads Hope of the World ministries, an international outreach of teaching, evangelism, and compassion projects for the needy. He is a much sought-after speaker and appears throughout America and the world.
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I would have to search for the link to that as I did not keep it 5. In The Harbinger and in many of his messages he notes that the DOW drops in and were the two largest in history, he failed to note and usually fails to note that this is in terms of POINTS only. When evaluated in terms of percentage, which is the only thing that has any significance whatsoever, neither drop ranks in even the top 10 of the last years. He mishandles the Word of God in both of his books, ignoring the context of Isaiah in The Harbinger and completely mishandling the whole issue of the Shemitah in his latest book.
I believe we are in the last days — but then we have been since Acts chapter 2. I also believe that we may be in the last hours of the last days. However, even if Cahn, Biltz and others are correct in their warnings, the Word of God and historical data must be used correctly and responsibly or the long-term effect is going to be the deception of multitudes of people. It seems to me that Cahn is a false teacher. But it seems that Cahn knows what the elitists know and that the markets are rigged and these economic upticks and declines are orchestrated not by God, but by the god of this world.
Even the seemingly most trusted large christian news website wnd. Cahn calls himself a Rabbi and allows others to call him a prophet without correction. WND also promotes people that believe in Dominionism like Shoebat who is a Catholic that thinks church is going to rise up and defeat the antichrist with a real army.
Confusion abounds on the internet and I see people I know that I thought would not believe in such things as not understanding the issue with these false teachers and how it is they all end up in the same places: wnd. Some good people mixed with some bad people and the masses are lead into the ditch. We need to read the bible, and watch and pray. Jesus is coming for us soon I do believe. And I do believe there is going to be a stock crash this fall and I can believe that the dollar is also going to crash.
Satan needs his beast system to be in high demand and crashing the global markets and currencies will help move that along. A well-needed, accurate write-up, nicely written and to-the-point. No revision needed. David, thanks for spending the time in putting this together to calm the hype. That understanding neither proves or disputes the thesis in the Harbinger; but it does support his idea that America has a covenant relationship with God.
Yes, you are right. Obviously the LDS claim is based on an additional spurious book — and not on the inspired Word of God. Therefore I conclude that the Harbinger is a fantastic novel-really intriguing but not a prophetic message to America. I conclude Israel is the nation who fell to judgment under God, as His chosen people nation which turned from Him, No other nation shall see the singled out judgment as Israel received and even so Israel will be restored in the end.
The future judmenton the world will not bring restoration. I disagree. No — the issue of God disciplining his children is found in the book of Hebrews — and the issue at hand is concerning Christians — which could be extended more generally to genuine believers in Him prior to the coming of Christ. That passage is not referring to the nation of Israel, although the concept that he judges Israel as a nation is also biblical. At the risk of sounding too harsh…. Come on! Wake up, people of God!
I understand your point and your concern. However, there are multiple times when the Lord uses parables to communicate prophetic truth indirectly. Parables are essentially very short fictional. For example, when Nathan the Prophet confronts David concerning his sin with Bathsheba — that is a prophetic, yet fictional parable. Dave, Thanks for the correction! II Sam and on. Something new for me to ponder…. You are absolutely correct! There are many, many parables in the OT; for some reason, it seems like hardly anybody notices them.
I long for the day when He will unravel Holy Scripture to reveal the patterns contained in His Holy Word previously unnoticed by mankind. In other words, test the things He has said, to be sure they are true. Realize His Word is fully written for you personally, giving vibrant life forevermore. Proceed boldly to the throne of G-d, but in the most humble of fashion.
With the exception of at least eight things, G-d can do anything He wants. Nonetheless, certainly, the L-rd can use any tool He pleases to accomplish His good. If David James did not write something addressing The Harbinger book, then I would have spent the time doing so as well. On another note, let us please pray for Dr.
Grant Jeffrey and his family this day, as he is very serious in the hospital. What a champion of the faith. Oh, how I long for His return. Come L-rd Yeshua! Come back today! Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Thanks I enjoyed your article. I have to say that my take away is that we do need to really acknowledge God for how good he is and quit taking him for granted. So regardless if the novel is true or not. I want to Stand in the Gap Ezekiel I have encouarged some of my friends to read it because I do think there is never going to be restoration without revealation.
To know the Lord is to Love him. Thanks again. It seems to me all the preachers who teach that there are no signs or miracles after the apostles died are all Southern Baptist. Jimmy DeYoung was speaking some years ago at a prophecy conference here in Winnipeg and was cought in his own lies…so much for libera Baptist theology. After all it disagrees with the old Diehard Baptist Theology.
I will never purchase anything from these so ill informed dogmatic teachers. We may disagree, but I would suggest it is probably a presumptuous to say we are misinformed. To do causes you to fall into the very trap of which you accuse us. I see this problem all the time. Beyond that, however, I would dare suggest that every one of the biblical writers as well as Christ himself were utterly dogmatic because they were speaking and writing the word of God.
The only authority we have is the word of God. Of course we believe Jesus is the same always. Have you looked at that verse in context to understand what it means as the original writer under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit? I would kindly suggest that comments on blogs be done in at least a spirit of humility and fairness. Could you please explain this a little further — what part of the message of The Harbinger are you referring to?
First we all know that the Bible has been rewritten and purged and rewritten more times than anyone really knows. Also note that man is the one that did this to the bible picking and choosing at times what to exclude or not. The book of Mormon as I understand as a member was translated directly from ancient tablets or original scribes. Also Noone can definativly say how to understand the word of God. It speaks to each reader a little differently. Also you must keep in mind the bible was originally written in a language that is virtually lost to us now.
We have a chopped version if Hebrew to go by. The only way to know if the harbinger is true is to read and pray and receive your answer straight from heaven father. Pray and find your own answers by seeking Gods answers and callings for you. Open your eyes we must back this book it will be able to reach people that all churches fail to now.
God will use all angles to attempt to keep his judgment from us because he loves us. Your first line brings in so many long-refuted assumptions and subjective opinions without any basis in fact as to render virtually everything else meaningless. To question the veracity of the Bible in one breath, while defending the long-discredited Book of Mormon demonstrates your lack of understanding of both texts. You missed the most important point that I want to express. That is God will try every way to reach every soul. This book will and has reached people that Churches and preachers have failed to.
Why try to discredit something that is working for God whether you believe it to be true or not. I lead my life through the direction of the Holy Spirit I believe that any true Christian does this. Therefore for me the only way to be certain of the validity of something is to pray and seek the answer straight from Father in Heaven.
The parts of the Bible that did survive the years of mans manipulation is the word of God just not the entire original Word. Honestly whatever it takes for people to be born again and ask Jesus Christ to come into their hearts and live a Christian life I believe is a work of God.
No matter what way the goal of eternity in Heaven is reached it is the same. The Bible has been refuted for years the Book of Mormon has only been returned to the people for less than years. So to say that the two are not equally refuted it is correct the Bible has been refuted much longer. I do not believe the Bible was meant to be used to discredit anything that is helping Jesus reach every soul.
I believe all the answers will be different for that individual as he made us all separately and knows all our names. Your entire post is based on your own personal philosophy — but with neither Scripture nor passages from the Book of Mormon to back it up. I could just as easily claim that the Holy Spirit very clearly showed me that your opinions about the Bible, Mormon, Mormonism and Cahn are completely mistaken — and, indeed, I believe he has. To say the Bible has been refuted for simply demonstrates that you have done no research into the matter whatsoever when it comes to the work of serious Bible scholars.
Give me a single example of anything in the Bible that was refuted years ago. Give me a single example of something of the original that you believe survived — and in the process, please provide your original research sources to back up your claims. Our work here on earth is to turn people toward God and have them accept Jesus into thier hearts, do you not agree with this? Again I ask if People are turning thier lives to God from Cahns book or the Book of Morman or any other piece of literature or movie or feeling they receive then why would you fight it and in turn are you not fighting God the ones word you are trying to defend?
God works through us every day and the most important thing we can do is his will and follow his influence on us. If we are doing good and following his commandments then why do you have a problem with what turned us to dedicate our lives to him? The facts are that nobody knows for sure until that day comes.
So no matter what I reference or you reference there is no denying that it technically does not come from GOD himself but through those God has chosen for one reason and that is to have our souls return to him at the final day of Judgement. I just feel it is contrary to all you believe to fight something that is doing good for God in this temporary world.
Again, you have offered nothing but philosophy and personal opinions. And again you have dodged my point. My point was never to argue facts in the Bible or what people have written to refute the bible which you know are out there. I am simply asking why you would fight something that is doing Gods will here on earth? Does that mean that we should employ the same tactics even though God used them to accomplish his purposes? Would it not have been correct to decry the cruelty of the Babylonian army who dragged their captives to Babylon by running large hooks through their noses?
It amazes me that you can speak for Jesus and Paul when you have no idea what they would actually tolerate or not. You also do this with such pride and confidence. When it clearly states that we should be humble and meek. Proverbs says we should seek the wisdom and knowledge of God through Prayer. Which is my preferred method of learning and understanding. You are so caught up in the words on paper that are not in the original language and have been translated to languages that had to adapt and conform words to make them make sense in that language.
I will not dispute that these are my personal beliefs that I have formed through prayer and answers. I do know that no matter how it happens Heavenly Father will smile on us for helping people find him. My knowledge of what Paul and Jesus would do is not based on pride always be careful of someone who accuses someone else of pride — but rather on what they actually said and did. Contrary to your assertion, we do have the words in the original language — and once again, your comments reflect a complete lack of understanding of textual issues, translation philosophy and processes and a host of other things — about which you, nonetheless, attempt to speak authoritatively.
And, at least you admit they are personal beliefs — rather than convictions based on solid biblical research. This reflects a thoroughly post-modern worldview — not one rooted in objective reality. Fortunately, when you go to turn on your lights in your home this evening, they will come on because of the existence of objective, knowable truth.
Sort of makes one wonder about your understanding of pride itself. The best part of all of this is we will end up in the same place when this world has ended for us. We will both answer to the same God. I have never had an interest in nailing down the origins of the Bible. I take it for what it is Gods Word and I live my life following his influences through prayer in my life.
I do read the Bible and Book of Mormon on a regular basis. I have read the Harbinger and listened to the Shmetah. I do not plan on using them as I do what I believe are Gods Word. I believe that Heavenly Father is using Jonathan Cahn and his books to reach people that people like you that are stuck cannot reach because they refuse to open their minds enough.
We are all different because that is how God made us there are people that prefer your methods and teachings. I feel you try to box God into a corner and to you there can be no other Word of God than the Bible. I do not believe that. I live for a more living God that is with us day to day and wants us to shout his praise from everywhere. As I have said I am sure we will meet one day. God has big plans.
Try to pray specifically asking about what you should be doing now in your life throw my name in there and see if he gives you more insight. See if He will answer you as he has me. Keep your eyes and ears and heart open David. You will do much good in these end times. Keep safe in September. I will speak with you again. According to what God has revealed in the Bible, you are worshiping a pagan god — a figment of your imagination.
That is what he has called idolatry — which is a damnable heresy. At the very best all you can hope for is that you are right and that Jesus, the prophets and the apostles got it all wrong. That is simply wishful thinking on your part. You hit the nail on the head. Jonathon Cahns Harbinger story is no more than a fairy tale. I went up to him and told him that he should consider making a broadway play about his story. The Harbinger is a complete con job and has nothing to do with the holy bible.
It makes me wonder if they are familiar with the scriptures in Isa. None of these true servants of the Lord hold to a view that adds to or replaces the truths of His holy word but instead teach the necessity of checking for agreement between scripture and their messages. Very thankful for this review.
The only thing I would probably want to add for more clarification is the fact that Is. The idolatrous 10 northern tribes broke away from Judah- Southern kingdom or Judean kingdom. Northern kingdom tribes ended their history sadly by a failed conspiracy against Judah. The sin and social injustices were too great.. What a lesson for us to read and know that!
All jewish people we know of now including my family are all descendants from the kingdom of Judah. Yehudi in its narrowest interpretation means someone from the tribe of Judah Heb. Well actually to say Jew is almost like to call Japanese people Japs.. Anyway, my point is- it is a very specific prophecy and I see it more as a verdict not as a warning at all… God already decided what He was about to do and just gave that message through Isaiah to be known! And I absolutely loved you mentioning Is.
What a promise there in those verses before He pronounced a verdict to unfaithful- there we see what He is about to do through the seed of David and inspite of everything, what a great hope He proclaims. Thank you,Dave, again for a good review. In the last days the deception will increase ,so we are to be trained to discern! While the ministry of discernment and correction is unpopular especially among those who need it most; Prov , Titus etc. Thank you, Dave James, for your review and your tone of gentle but firm reason as you seek to rightly divide the word of truth. I just finished the book, which as you stated made some very compelling arguments, and I too am in agreement that America is heading in a dangerous direction.
Oddly enough I even vividly remember the Senate Majority Leaders mishandling of the scriptures. Thank you very much for your rebuttal. I will be sharing this with my friends! We are now going through the final round of edits and are on track to hit our target release date for the book.
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The book will be around pages or so and goes into extensive detail concerning each of the major points. After hundreds of hours of research, reading and writing, my early conclusions have been repeatedly confirmed — even the apparent coincidences tend to evaporate when examined to any degree. Just finished reading your review. Thank you so much for a very clear answer.
I just recently came out of the SDA church and upon reading the first few chapters was reminded so much of Ellen White. You have confirmed my suspicions. Thank you so much. Carol Cooper. That ministry defends the book but unfortunately all their defense so far is based on pretty much that the author meant well and that he had very good intentions writing the book and that we ,americans ,need such a message and that we,those who critisize the book, miss the forest behind the tree..
Why on earth this author is using this terminology in his book?? I also posted in that post this 2 quotes from The Harbinger so that any one who reads that comment of mine would know what I am basing my opinion on.. That was his passion — finding meaning in mystical Hebrew literature. Yes, I am aware that some have chosen to defend the author and the book for reasons other than the majority of the content of the book.
In my book, which will be released in the next few weeks, I have a section where I specifically deal with the issue of Jewish mysticism in The Harbinger. We are hopeful that this book will help many to see the very serious problems throughout The Harbinger. I am glad you have a section about it in your book.
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It was just surprising to me that such discernment ministries as Olive tree ministry who in the past spent so much time exposing mysticism and occultism when it comes to TH they say nothing about it at all.. But the book has a great message, but I think his timetable is off. Unfortunately, more than just his timetable is off. There are problems with how he handles the Word of God, selectively chooses facts to support his theory and makes misleading statements. Sounds like God to me. God have mercy on us… We try to be intelligent, but we end up being a distraction more than a help.
God have mercy on us! Several observations: 1. I noted very clearly the main message of the book and that it is a much-needed message. America is not a parallel. Faith and believe are not mentioned one time in connection with the gospel in the entire book. Neither is the resurrection, apart from which there is no gospel. This is not picking nits. Did you notice that Christians are never mentioned in the book? Even though he talks about judgment, did you notice that he never mentions Jesus Christ in connection with those coming judgments? Did you notice that he never mentions the death of Christ on the cross — but only refers to what looked like a cross at Ground Zero?
What is telling though is that so many Christians have somehow missed on picking up on these things — as well as many other serious problems in the book. The book is a well-executed illusion. What I will not do is complicate a simple message. The book was labeled fiction for a reason. The responsibility of the church Christians is to disciple young believers. The book sends them in the right direction. Now, it is our responsibility to help them connect and remain connected with God through Christ.
I think a needed approach would be en to start a discussion around the facts of the book and transform it into a bible study where the word is taught. I do believe you mean well, but the truth remains that God does want America to turn back to Him.
Cahn on Trump the Harbinger
You tell me 2 Chronicles is not applicable to America, but I disagree. Standing before God, what would be your defense. America is wasting a way and someone calls us back to repentance and prayer and your only defense is 2 Chronicles is not applicable. Give me the simplicity of the Gospel.
God sent His son to reconcile a rebellious people back to himself. There is no defense for the direction this country is going. As my book will show, which will be available within the next couple of weeks, the book actually has very few facts — and many of those are presented in a misleading way. Thanks for the post Patricia, agree with all your reflections. I think dispensation issues are behind a lot of the criticism of the Harbinger.
It took awhile to come out but to say that I Chron is not for us is the clearest indication. As an old radio preacher, maybe DeHann? Unfortunately, sooner or later in any discussion of dispensationalism a straw man gets erected and then attacked. Dispensational theology is a biblical theology because it flows directly from a literal, grammatical, historical hermeneutic — consistently applied across genres.
That being the case we do understand and completely agree that every scripture has some sort of practical application in every generation — a timeless truth. The principle was there. So, we do understand that 2 Chron has an application to America — but since it is not to America, the timeless truths must be applied, not the specifics that involved only Israel. For example, Israel was promised a land with god-given geographical boundaries. Therefore, repentance would bring healing to their land physically.
Neither does God have a covenant with America as He did with Israel — so promises related to the covenant cannot be directly applied to the nation as a whole. However, the application is not at all what Cahn makes it to be in The Harbinger. That is a mishandling of the Word of God — although a popular one. My book clears up this matter — and it has nothing to do with dispensationalism per se.
Where Bible says that any country supposed to have influence in the world.. Lets pray that the church will have some influence in the world.. My opinion is that american christians are too american -focused.. Sorry I dont mean to offend anybody, but so many people from Europe and Africa are asking questions now about this book- why God is sending signs only to USA?? Is USA any special than other countries?? It is so sad that there is such a division about this book even among discernment ministries.. Some discernment ministries certainly need more discernment about it.. The final version will go to the digital printer tomorrow — with copies beginning to be available sometime next week or so.
I have also been contacted by Chris Pinto who has another well-known radio program who has said he also wants to promote my book. There is discussion of a Spanish version, too, print, ebook and audio. So, we will see what the Lord chooses to do with this. The Berean Call staff thinks this is an important book and will be working hard to make it known. The question still remains. Is God calling America to turn back to Him. He called Israel. Can He call America? Ochman, to whom much is given much is required. We America were blessed in so many ways. Consequently, America has a responsibility to the world.
God gave her the influence for a reason. I guess the saying is true…. If you do not use it, you will lose it. God called Israel as his chosen people to be faithful to the covenant they had with him at the national level. The as a gentile nations, the parallel to America is not Israel in any way — it would be Nineveh.
The people of Nineveh were called on to repent — it was not a call to repentance at a national level, it was a call for individuals to get right with the God of Israel. Of course, there are national-level implications whenever a large segment of a society is in a right relationship with God — it affects everything. But that is substantially different. So, yes, he called Israel — and he can call Americans — but he is not calling America as a nation to something that has never existed.
Much recent work has been done to dispel this myth. The nation has been blessed as a whole because of the freedom the Constitution guarantees for its citizens — which allows them to freely worship and influence society in a way that few nations have ever done. This has allowed the nation to have a positive influence in the world for many things, including freedom and the spread of the gospel. The judgment that the nation will experience at a national level will come as His people within the nation are suppressed, throttled, persecuted, demeaned and ignored. Every nation shares responsibility.
Every Gentile nation shares a responsibility consistent with the degree to which they have been blessed. Also, the Word of God guarantees that a day is coming when every Jew will be a believer as a remnant turns to him. However, this promise extends to no other nation. There will probably be nations where there are few believers and certainly not enough to turn a nation around. Enough Jews will be believers that the nation will turn back to God.
We need to keep our eye on the Word of God and handle carefully and in keeping with its absolute authority. Perhaps God does want to use America — I have not problem with this idea in principle. But before we make a declaration that something is an incontrovertible fact we must have biblical support?
In hindsight, we can certainly see that God has used America and Americans in many ways. I have no problem at all with wanting the nation to turn to God so that he can continue using us in the future. In context it is not a Gentile nation — nor would it ever be a Gentile nation. America is not the nation of only the believers in this country — it is the nation of believers along with all those who are dragging the nation collectively into the moral abyss. Our citizenship is in heaven. These are not simply matters of semantics. They have to do with how we approach the Word of God responsibly — which going back to this article — Cahn has not done in The Harbinger — not at all.
Thank you for much clarification. None of the original readers — nor the original writer would have understood it in any other way. Now I am confused about the importance of context. For many years when I was in the Lutheran Church, the service was always concluded wit the Aaronic Blessing. If I understand the adherence to context correctly, that blessing was only for the Hebrew. Another perplexing thought is this: Psalm It was written by David in the first person singular. How then can I take it to mean ME? I appreciate any light you might shed. In that sense, there are few, if any problems, in blessing any believer in a similar way.
Concerning Psalm 23, it is a bit different because it reflects the words of the king of Israel that includes things that apply only to him anointing my head with oil that signified that he had been made king — preparing a table in the presence of his his enemies — which is probably not something you experience regularly. So, the task is to look for the time-less truths, the eternal principles that can be applied by anyone at any time — and those which could only have applied to David. Most of the time. In the case of some other passages it becomes a bit more difficult.
You bet it does! The Holy Bible: Holman Christian standard version. Nashville: Holman Bible Publishers. Friend, America had better wake up and fast. However, I feel that America is dangerously close to incurring the same divine judgment and wrath as Israel. As a nation we will be judged not so much on the basis of the ungodly acts committed by ungodly sinners, but for the professing Christians willfully turning away from the true God to follow hollow deceptive philosophy of man. We are a proud nation that continually and willfully defies God.
We have to understand that no nation came about on its own, but rather each were planted by God for his purposes. Honestly, I feel that the only reason God has not completely judged this nation is due to Americas protection of Israel Genesis Jeremiah — I agree with virtually everything you said including the fact that God could be or soon may be judging America — except for Isaiah referring to America, which is most definitely does not — nor does any other OT passage refer to America specifically.
If so, then you can see that not only is Isaiah specifically referring to ancient Israel, but that it is referring exclusively to ancient Israel. I am extremely conservative when it comes to believing and applying 2 Tim. McMahon and I will be discussing my book The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction — set to be released next week with Brannon Howse on his program for two days this week. My book goes into much more detail and is documented much more extensively than my article. It clearly demonstrates that Jonathan Cahn has created an illusion with his book and virtually everything in his book are not even coincidences, let alone from the hand of God.
The book will be available through The Berean Call website, as well as Amazon. Actions speak louder than words. That is defiance, plain and simple. They were only defiant against the terrorists — not against God. They are not spiritual leaders of the church in America. They are not speaking on behalf of believers. America is not a theocracy and America is not a nation in covenant with God as was and is Israel. They neither represent God to the nation nor the nation to God. I encourage you to read the more recent article posted last week about my book which has just been released.
As you will see, The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? I hope you will consider reading The Harbinger: Fact or Fiction? Hey, Dave. Thanks for answering my post so quickly. When it comes to the whole covenant issue, I leave that up to the experts. However, I do ask one thing. When I made my vows to my husband, I believe I entered a covenant relationship that was initiated by myself and my husband so can we say with total certainty that God did not honor the vow the Puritans made to enter America into covenant with Him?
I do plan on reading everything I can on the subject as I always want to be on the side of truth. And, again, I thank you for your quick response. I really try to respond to every comment — and hope to do so unless the volume becomes unwieldy. You bring up a couple of really good points. However, the things you mention are really in a different category and not really applicable in a similar way concerning defiance. Let me give you an illustration:. Even though he may occasionally feel this way about his mother, too — at that moment, he is not being directly or indirectly, wittingly or unwittingly defiant against his mother — he is defying the kid at school and only the kid at school.
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God had warned them through the prophets and they knew he was using the Assyrians to judge them. The two situations — in Israel and America — are not even remotely comparable in this regard. Yes, we can make vows to God that are binding upon us as individuals — but this is a different situation than a nation. Israel was a covenant nation — called and chosen by God.
No other nation ever has or ever will be in that situation. There is no place in the Word of God that suggests any nation that would like to do so can initiate a covenant that God would honor. The reason we know it happens with marriage is because the Bible teaches about it. However, there is zero biblical basis for even suggesting that another nation might end up in that situation. We cannot claim anything like this without instruction in the Bible — it is completely speculation — and that is what The Harbinger is built on in its entirety, speculation. I really, really appreciate the opportunity to interact — and I am confident that the Lord will bless you and guide you into all truth about this matter.
I have read the Harbinger and admit it was and is seductive in its symmetry of the prophetic being worked out in our midst, as I pray the Word will come alive in our time……but I admit also my insides were in a twist over many of the points of discord you point out, Dave, and I agree with you.
But we are not in a covenant relationship as a nation! God has a covenant relationship with one nation only, and that is Israel. America may have dedicated herself to God and as a fledgling nation desired to follow him in unity…. Same thing! We must pray! For God to heal our land and if possible forstall what is appropriate judgement.
He has committed to each and every one of his believers to hear and answer every prayer that is prayed…and these answers are not prophetically predetermined, carried forth by those who have no idea what they are doing…. Thank you for your comments and thoughts. You are quite right in what you suggest although I would offer just a bit different way to handle 2Chron — which I will note below — yet, you are right in general about this too.
As I point out in my book now available at wwww. RE 2Chron — this is probably one of the most misused verses in the OT. And if we do not, then judgment will begin with the church. But I truly appreciate the dialogue. I will read the book. I have to respectfully disagree as far as the defiance issue in our leaders as I believe it is BECAUSE of our unrepentant sins that God allowed the attacks to take place. Is there something in the Hebrew language that really pinpoints that down? I have another question altogether different.
There is someone who endorses your book listed on the back cover who I know, for sure, did a series linking Deuteronomy 28, Leviticus 26 and Isaiah 5 to America today and has talked about how God uses a template to judge nations. So my question is, what is the difference, if any, between what this man is doing with these particular OT scriptures originally intended for Israel but just applying it to America today and what Rabbi Cahn did with Isaiah ?
I emailed that person a month ago and got nothing but dead silence back. The most we can possibly do is speculate. He only allowed one out of tens of thousands. By killing the prophets they were defying God very directly. When those standards are broken he often sends one or more warnings and sometimes does relent when there is repentance -and often there is judgment follows the failure to repent.
That is a template — a general pattern. This is not how prophecies work — but rather turns them into a mystical incantation. Another problem is it cannot be considered a precise pattern biblical pattern because it is found nowhere else in Scripture. You have to have at least one or two other examples for something to be a biblical pattern. Otherwise it is just a unique way that God handled a specific situation. A classic example would be Ananias and Saphira in Acts 5. It was a one-off unique way in which God dealt with that specific situation. God could certainly do it again.
I have never heard it suggested that the religious leaders were the only ones who set themselves against the prophets. It seems that it was very likely similar to what happened at Kadesh Barnea for example, when the people as a whole rejected the report of the 2 spies and accepted that of the He was preaching out among the common people.
The religious leaders set themselves against him, but not before he had made his message known to the average person. Also, Jesus said to the people that they have Moses and the prophets — which indicates that the average person was aware of their preaching. Again, the way this is treated in The Harbinger is far different that the way Brannon would handle this.
By the way, today I did an interview with Brannon along with the director of The Berean Call — we did an hour long program — and will do a second hour on Tuesday. Going back to 1 — I want to be clear. Another question. I was taught that they withheld Isaiah 53 maybe even all of Isaiah as even the Jews today, I understand, question that book… but you can correct me on that point and Psalm So, until tomorrow… and after I listen to that first installment on wvw website.
And that is at the heart of the problem. That these coincidences even exist is an illusion, albeit a well-executed illusion. But like any illusion, the audience sees exactly what the illusionist wants it to see — but what the audience thinks it is seeing does not correspond to reality. If you go to my most recent article, at the end I posted the 8 endorsements for my book to give you a feel for what some very good conservative Bible teachers think after reading both books.
A form of Godliness…but completely denying the power thereof. I think that phrase in the Bible says it all. You cannot deny that our nation is experiencing judgement. Look at the freedoms lost, the massive increase of debt, the jobs leaving, the economic crash of …oddly enough fell on Rosh Hashanah, the seventh month in the Hebrew calender, and also fell points.
No, your greek logic will not see this important harbinger, but divine knowledge will see this, because it is totally divine. Low interest rates, two illegal wars, and the urge to consume beyond our means, all lead to the crash of 08 and the great recession. Not to mention electing the most liberal man our nation has ever had as our leader.
Did we take heed of Gods divine warning??? NO…but we still have a chance, but the time is winding down. We must understand the significance of our sins and the sins of our nation. We abort millions of unborn, we have shed the blood of millions of innocent people in Iraq, public prayer is banned, the ten commandments are out of our schools, and the sanctity of marriage is completely being compromised. You people are delusional if you do not think that our nation is being warned. We need to look at our way of life and instead of meddling in the affairs of others middle east and rest of the world.
If we do not get the log out of our own eye, and continue to pick at the needle in others, we will be judged by God. I hope there will be righteous people standing in the gap or our nation as well as the church. Without the saints of God in this country, this place would be tore up from the floor up. That is the only thing holding back His judgement on this country. No, your Greek logic will not see these important harbingers, but divine knowledge will see this, because it is from God.
It makes me wonder if you actually read my entire article because I agree with almost everything you said — and I note that in the article. The Lord saved me from a life of sin and rationalizing away Him and His Word. I believe everything the Bible says in every detail. Beyond that, a huge amount of prayer has gone into this project and I have sought counsel from a number of very godly men with very good ministries who are very good Bible teachers. So, perhaps it might be helpful to ask some questions rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks and name-calling as the first salvo.
It could well have been. Yes, of course — just as should all the things that happen every day that highlight the rampant sin throughout the United States. He has mishandled the Word of God, selectively used historical events and made misleading statements. I hope you will take time to read my book that details these things at a much greater depth and breadth. However, if you put a couple other parallels together, that might make a difference.
For instance, both attacks were VERY widely known but how many people know about all the smaller attacks that take place overseas or even at home unless you REALLY pay attention to the news? Anyway, like I said before, I will read your book so I can see exactly what you are referring to and will also be paying attention to any rebuttals regarding your book.
Did you also know that the following year there was a Japanese attack on the Aleutian Islands. Had God removed his hedge of protection then? If he had removed it in those instances, when was it put back into place? While it was true, they did not talk about repentance, but that was not their role. However, there were a number among those who were spiritual leaders who did talk about repentance. Another thing that Cahn spins in the book is the quoting of Isaiah — and mentions that they chose this verse out of 30, verses in the Bible.
That is just not being honest with the reader. How many other verses are there in the entire Bible that talk about rebuilding after an enemy attack? Yeah, it had to be God! But again, what other verse would they have used? Therefore, the fact that they said this is not at all proof of defiance the slightest degree. To try to use this to make his case and persuade the reader is just disingenuous. What you will find is that this basically happens with every single harbinger — as well as the Shemitah.
There are a couple of interesting things, like 29 Elul — but when everything else is stripped away, it really does just become an interesting coincidence. This is why we are so concerned — because there is so much misleading information that has been set forth, all the while proclaiming that the message is directly from God. And this she did for many days.
Acts This demonstrates that just because someone is giving even a biblical message related to salvation does not mean the message or the messenger must be from God. We must be very careful if we are going to keep from being deceived by those who wrongly use the Word of God. And just one more thing: Remember this, that the majority of those who are actively promoting The Harbinger and those with whom Cahn is most actively working are some of the most well-known false teachers of this generation, while those who are concerned about The Harbinger are some of the most well-known conservative Bible teachers of this generation.
He even makes sure that what is in your heart will eventually come out of your mouth! This is just how I see it. But thank you for praying for me. I can surely use all the prayers I can get! I mentioned to Brannon that it took him some time to weed out David Barton because he needed to work through the information. We need to be careful about how we apply this. But then you would also have to accept The Harbinger. What do you do when there are two contradictory statements that the sovereign Lord allows? If they wanted to use a Bible verse — what else would they have used to talk about rebuilding?
That is all I meant by that. I understand what you said about Daschle and Edwards not being the spiritual head to make any spiritual proclamations or something to that effect and the jury is still out on that point for me. Oh, but I did listen to the Worldview Weekend broadcast this morning and there WERE things addressed I had not heard before so it did give me more food for thought. However, there were things that happened that influenced my decision s about this.
I tried emailing to get clarification but got nothing but dead silence. But, on the other hand, I emailed Jonathan just to apologize to him for his being poorly treated… especially his being accused of bad motives… this was most egregious to me and caused me grief and asked Jonathan MANY questions about my own concerns about him and his book. A couple of my former pastors did a study of the Seven Churches in Revelation and looked at them from four perspectives — Historically, Representatively, Prophetically, and Individually and I started thinking about that.
It appeared to me like Jonathan was a Smyrnian-type Christian — receiving unjust persecution — and his critics were Ephesian-type Christians… those who were doing a VERY good work who were and are commended by God for that work in Rev but who forgot how to love. He bent over backwards to attempt to clarify himself. I know that there are good men on both sides of this argument so the rest of us laypeople are left scratching our heads and questioning who is correct. And these were both GOOD men! I consider many on both sides of this argument GOOD men, like you.
There have been things said about us publicly and to privately us primarily from his supporters that were actually far worse than anything any of those with concerns have expressed. The harbinger seems to tie in with some Mormon teachings about the US being a Chosen nation and Jesus coming back to set up his kingdom here. What do you think? I have noted in my book that some well-known Mormons are now using The Harbinger to support the Mormon view that America is in covenant with God.
I do need to make clear, though, that I do not believe Jonathan Cahn intentionally does this or that he personally has any Mormon connections. All I meant is that I believe God is sovereign even over our speech. So much so that we will even betray the evil in our hearts with our very words… eventually… or speak good words that come from the heart depending on what goes into our thought life.
What is in our hearts will work out in our words and actions. So I just wanted to be sure to clarify that. I would have to have my head examined if I believed that Yikes! I understood what you meant. If you would like to contact me through an email address rather than through this comment section, feel free to do so: djames biblicalintegrity. This is exhausting, but stretching. Thanks, Dave. I even thought about looking for a private email of yours to correspond and I may go that route in the future. I apologize for the Greek logic comment but I believe that to be at the heart of what is holding people back from seeing truth.
Everyone tries to find logic and reasoning to everything. But judgement is happening now and all the signs are their. Sin can only go on for so long with God. Just like any other nation, we have had multiple chances to turn from our wicked ways. As followers of Christ we must be aware of Gods judgment when it is at our door step.
I am sorry if you felt personally attacked.